Curse

Xenomortis · Jan 19, 2011, 03:00 PM // 15:00

You would be better off with Healer's Boon for that.
Which highlights something seriously wrong.

LifeInfusion · Jan 19, 2011, 03:12 PM // 15:12

@ Spazzer

I would burn my elite on UA to bring DH + HD (aka to get a usable party heal that doesn't require energy management or crappy spot heals like on a LoD bar). Gift + Dismiss getting a hefty boost is a side benefit, not the main event. They aren't exactly powerheals when you consider that 14Heal Healing Burst pumps out 150 base + DF, or 140+DF if you are trying to maximize the DF attributes and run 13Heal+13DF+rest in prot.

On your bar, Dismiss is 63*1.6=100.8 before DF, with hat swap of course. Similarly, gift of health is 153.6 before DF.

There's no reason to run UA with only gift+dismiss. You're better off running burst: at least you get a decent party pressure heal.

The only prot you can really fit on a UA bar is prot spirit or SoA, the former is effectively 13 energy under UA (10 under selfless spirit). Having aegis on there is nice too, but again it's effectively 13 energy.

Shielding Hands is pretty garbage in hard mode though. Even wanding damage is above 15, so to outdo SoA you need to have less than 3 hits on the person which means you are using it as a heal on 15 recharge.

Since UA doesn't boost DF I never count the DF in the heal amount, since I would be getting that regardless of whether UA is up.

Once you drop those two skills (Shielding Hands, Aegis) there's no reason to pump prot to 12 since Dismiss condition should be used only when Gift is on recharge, seeing how 63 base heal is not that great even if you have 17 UA.

Vazze · Jan 20, 2011, 07:10 PM // 19:10

What I hate about UA is that I have not seen a single res sig in MONTHS in pugs. It was never easy but they used to understand that monks don't rez. Now there is UA and the only thing monks are expected to do is rez and redbar. The death mechanics is a fundamental thing, connecting it to a single elite skill of a single profession so intimately is just bad.
If UA is not the best then it is probably the second best whatever you are doing so chances are one monk is or should be UA.

Wenspire · Jan 20, 2011, 08:51 PM // 20:51

UA's worth goes up as the skill level of a Monk goes down. The reverse is also true. This is how I see it.

cataphract · Jan 21, 2011, 07:32 PM // 19:32

WoH has always been my favorite elite skill.

<3 WoH

Age · Jan 21, 2011, 08:13 PM // 20:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxxfury

Its the SPELLS! not the monk..and any class that can afford the energy for them can use them as well with a monk 2ndry...and with SUPERIOR energy managment, like a ER that has all but INFINITE energy and can use the SPELLS more often, with less drawbacks...and when you add in a free infuze (with a self heal for the health sacrifice afterwards when you cast ANYTHING..) you have a much better platform to use prots prayers from...

And NO divine favour doesnt make up for the sheer brute force an ER brings with godly energy for abusing prots, especially 10e ps + sb and prot bond's maintained cost...and the infuse abuse..

Tho ill say no more on this as it wont register past the bias..

The only thing they don't have is the divine favour bonus to heal up their teammates.It is obvious people don't read about the Monk class these days.

maxxfury · Jan 22, 2011, 04:00 AM // 04:00

When infuse heals for more than woh + divine favour..has no cooldown timer (other than after cast all spells have) and another skill automatically heals the sacrifice?..... yup thats right you dont need divine favour to "spike" heal and power prot to 'out monk a monk' with an elem..*

Its obvious some people dont read about the monk class and its skills these days... and im not getting into this again, as im sure everyone is sick of explaining the mechanics ad nauseum :S

*note: only regarding spike heals and big prots, not cleaning, party healing, pressure mop up ect..thats for another bar!

Chocolate_Prayers · Jan 28, 2011, 02:15 PM // 14:15

Personally I'd prefer Burst over Boon and UA. Always liked the skill even pre-buff.
Most situations there are several party members who have little bits of health missing with one person missing a severe chunk, Burst works well in this situation by topping up all of the bars in one go.

Sadly though, lots of parties these days dislike monks having anything aside from the regular UA or HB builds..

But if I'd have to choose between WoH, Boon and UA I'd probably choose Boon :-)

Random Scrubinator · Feb 23, 2011, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Given that DP removal is so prolific, UA is basically a 5 energy, 1/4 cast spell which heals a player to full health and restores all their energy at the cost of the time it takes for the player to run back to where they were standing. It's the most energy efficient healing spell in the game, and it's the best energy management spell in the game, all rolled into one skill. You prot and heal not to prevent people from dying at all, but to prevent people from dying faster than UA's recharge.
There may be much less skill involved, it might not be fun to play, and battles might be a lot less intense, but people, when given a powerful skill/build, will use it to the exclusion of all others

Wenspire · Feb 24, 2011, 12:39 AM // 00:39

Actually, I'd rather heal/prot to prevent people from dying. I mean, if multiple insta-rez use is necessary then there is definitely something wrong with the healer/prot or party setup.

ZephyLynx · Feb 24, 2011, 07:34 PM // 19:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Scrubinator

You prot and heal not to prevent people from dying at all, but to prevent people from dying faster than UA's recharge

That's terrible! Last time I checked, wasn't it the monk's job to prevent deaths? While I main a monk, I have played every other profession fairly in depth and have a decent understanding of most of the mechanics. On the other side (and even as a monk) I would rather not die in the first place, then die and get rezzed again. If you have to expend a lot of effort to keep your team from dying every 10 seconds, there are fundamental flaws with your team setup. You are much better off either fixing your team composition or leaving and finding/making a better team than using UA as your band aid.

Kaida the Heartless · Feb 27, 2011, 01:23 AM // 01:23

UA is bar compression for pugs and a (weak) excuse for the use of Monk heroes. It's is also the only spell you get that can "Prot Spirit" your time/effort from stupidity, the most dangerous and hard to catch spike in the game. Most player's try to stop this spike by slamming their face into their keyboard for minutes at a time, but even this doesn't work. As such, UA is what you must rely on.

The only other reason this skill is brought nowadays is because it gets better the more stupid your party gets.
UA Effectiveness = Combined Player Stupidity x Difficulty of Map x How Many Idiots Seem to Have Their Monitors Off x How Many Idiots Are Playing Without Keyboards

Why bother setting up your team for success? With the amount of Cons and PCons available (stupid, stupid addition to the game) Death Penalty is only scary if it builds up enough, like my rage when the Ele won't step the hell back for 3 seconds while I pull. This way, you can have a generic monk bar that PvX tards can both use and scream-to-use when they(or someone) join(s) a party. This way, they are all communicating in a language even the most +Regen'ed out Wammo can understand. Remember, PvXtards are scared of change, and presenting any will likely label you a witch and you will burn eternally for your sins.

Essentially, UA is GW's way of Herpa-Derping the absolute hell out of PvE. Better hop aboard the Moron Express, because it's the only mode of transportation leaving towns anymore, and Captain WTF is piloting. Expect that the moment your Fail Trolley runs into the smallest bump, that your vehicle will careen off the side of the nearest and tallest available mountain into a fiery, ragey wreck, often complete with broken keyboards/monitors/mice, holes in walls, and the occasional aneurysm if you're really lucky. The morons however, will have constructed an impermeable shield of excuses and blame, and as such, will experience no i'll effects from the wreckage. UA is the only spell that can prevent said catastrophes.

I hope my jaded rage was humorous for you. Have a nice day.

Age · Feb 28, 2011, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

I know what your biased and misinformed opinion is. You've thrown it around enough and it's no more credible than it's ever been.
However, when the topic of my original post was regarding using a Monk in a team setting where solid defense was provided*, I believe I'm justified in clarifying when people question it. Especially when their conclusions they make are based on a false interpretation.

*Ok, I didn't list ST Rits along with SY and ER, but nevermind that.

I am not being biased but only honest and not misinformed as you never played Monk and I got 2 Necros and fooling around with a Rit just for fun.We can still out heal and protect better than anyone.

thetwistedboy · Feb 28, 2011, 04:19 AM // 04:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaida the Heartless

I hope my jaded rage was humorous for you. Have a nice day.

It was. Thank you.

Anyway, UA really isn't need and is a pretty much a crutch for bad teams unless your in a FoWSC where one monk can't heal through 5 morons not spiking correctly or back away when empathy and ss is on them.

Random Scrubinator · Feb 28, 2011, 09:46 AM // 09:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZephyLynx

That's terrible! Last time I checked, wasn't it the monk's job to prevent deaths? While I main a monk, I have played every other profession fairly in depth and have a decent understanding of most of the mechanics. On the other side (and even as a monk) I would rather not die in the first place, then die and get rezzed again. If you have to expend a lot of effort to keep your team from dying every 10 seconds, there are fundamental flaws with your team setup. You are much better off either fixing your team composition or leaving and finding/making a better team than using UA as your band aid.

I'm just saying that when there's no penalty for dying, there's no difference between dying and instantly rezzing with full health and energy, and a skill which heals any target for full health and energy. Considering that said skill costs 5 energy, can be pre-cast, and has a recharge of 10, it's one of the most powerful skills in the game.
The next most efficient healing spell in the game heals for half health and has an interruptible cast time
The next most most efficient energy regen spell in the game costs 33% of your health, and only restores a few extra energy per second

I'm also of the opinion that monking has steadily declined in the skill vs effectiveness ratio since Nightfall, to the point that nowadays, very competent protting is less effective than UA+seed of life+redbarring.

Xenomortis · Feb 28, 2011, 10:58 AM // 10:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I am not being biased but only honest and not misinformed as you never played Monk and I got 2 Necros and fooling around with a Rit just for fun.We can still out heal and protect better than anyone.

You don't want to play the argument from authority game. Seriously, you don't.

ZephyLynx · Feb 28, 2011, 04:13 PM // 16:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Random Scrubinator

I'm just saying that when there's no penalty for dying, there's no difference between dying and instantly rezzing with full health and energy, and a skill which heals any target for full health and energy.

Let's say I'm an ele who just used my attunement, rit that used attuned was songkai, warrior/para that used for great justice/focused anger, any martial class that uses drunken master, or any class that uses and depends on a buff with a somewhat long recharge time. If I die somewhat early into the buff's recharge and get rezzed, it leaves me at a disadvantage. I would call this a penalty for dying.

From a numbers point of view, dieing and rezzing with UA seems good on paper. However, there are factors that are not seen on paper when in the battlefield. Honestly, I think of UA (used as a rez) as a kind of catch 22. UA is good for the emergency rez. It is a quick and easy way to bring back someone. However you benefit from UA less, the less you use it. The better your team, the less effective UA becomes (as a rez). But if your team is dieing as fast as the recharge, UA becomes more useful, but only to sustain your team. It still does not fix the fact that your team (including the UA monk) may just be terribly composed. At that point, you are still better off fixing the team, or finding another team.

Age · Feb 28, 2011, 08:16 PM // 20:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xenomortis

You don't want to play the argument from authority game. Seriously, you don't.

What is that suppose to mean you work for Anet or something?I know more about Monks than you do.

**Marty Silverblade** · Mar 01, 2011, 12:44 AM // 00:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

What is that suppose to mean you work for Anet or something?I know more about Monks than you do.

No, it's your stupid 'I've been playing monk since beta so I'm automatically better than you' rubbish. That's like saying 'I'm a mod so I'm the best player in GW'. How long you've been playing means nothing, and this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

We can still out heal and protect better than anyone.

shows how little you understand about the current meta. ER eles can outprot and outheal monks*. This is a fact. I would be happy to debate this but you clearly have no interest in seeing anything other than mindless praise for monks so I'm not going to bother.

*Although ER Eles don't have access to any decent party heals so in that aspect Monks have the advantage. But to say Monks have more raw healing power is wrong.

Wenspire · Mar 01, 2011, 01:27 AM // 01:27

For me, until I see groups actively looking for ER Eles, they will always be a niche setup. I won't deny that they have more raw single-target healing power; it's pretty much a fact because of how well ER synergizes with certain skill setups. But again, they are used pretty rarely from an overview standpoint.